May 4 2007: The Inevitability of Children
Filed under Asian-ness & Family & Online
I wonder if I only feel the urge to have children because I’m Chinese. Culturally speaking, the Chinese hold the family unit in high regard. An individual puts the family’s benefit before their own. You’re considered a disgrace to the ideals of filial piety, etc. (gleaned mainly from the ideas of Confucianism) if you don’t have your own children and continue the family line.
Since I was young, I’ve grown up with the unspoken but implicit command of my parents to eventally marry and have children. Admittedly, having children isn’t as big a deal for me as it will be for my brother, as my children will never carry my family’s surname – thus, they aren’t as important as those who will. Yet I’ve always known that that’s what I’ll do…as that’s what every good Chinese girl does.
What does this entry stem from? I was reading the “If you want/have/don’t want to have kids…” thread at Snark Forums, and was surprised by how many people weren’t planning on having children, for reasons like “I’m too selfish”.
By the way I’ve been brought up, there’s no such thing as being too selfish to have children. You do it, not necessarily for yourself, but for the benefit of your parents who suffered twenty-plus years to bring you up. You give them the next generation to content themselves with when they’re older so they can perform their duty as doting grandparents.
Along the same lines, I don’t understand the concept of aged care. We simpy don’t put elderly family members in aged care, nursing homes, retirement villages – that’s not being filial. You could never claim being “too selfish” as a reason to abandon your family to the care of others. Older family members live with and are taken care of by the family. It’s not unusual to find four generations living under one roof: great grandparents, grandparents, father/mother, children.
You’re born into the arms of your family. You maintain and develop that family. You die in the arms of your family. That’s the way my family have been for a millenia. That’s the way I’ll be bringing my children up to think – to put family first before anything else.
19 Responses to “The Inevitability of Children”
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“You do it, not necessarily for yourself, but for the benefit of your parents who suffered twenty-plus years to bring you up.”
At the risk of sounding like a complete prick, I must express my dislike of the idea that you have children because you “owe” them to your parents. Obviously my family ethic is different (that is, it doesn’t exist — I come from a pretty antisocial family) and I place zero value on “continuing the family line”, but I cannot understand how it is that some parents feel entitled to grandchildren. After spending 18+ years raising your own kids, why would you demand grandchildren and thus create more work for yourself? Besides, in disowning your child for not giving you grandchildren, you presume to have a control over their body that you simply do not have. I wouldn’t stand to not have the freedom to make my own choices.
Nonetheless, I think it’s interesting that you’ve stepped back to challenge cultural conditioning and, of course, I would never fight you on your decision to have kids if that is truly what you want. It’s none of my business, is it?
Reply: That’s where our cultures differ I guess, because in mine, you don’t put your individual comfort/body/whatever first. The family comes first before everything else – this includes having children to continue the family line; also, you don’t get disowned if you don’t have children. It’s simply considered the filial thing to do, but being unfilial isn’t going to have you disowned…it’s simply that our culture doesn’t approve of it.
You could think of it in terms of the nobility – continuing the family line and title is paramount. If Diana hadn’t had William and Harry, and had adopted instead, would the adopted children be considered fully part of the family? Probably not – having one’s own natural children is vital.
Jordie on May 4 2007 #
Just add a few tacos on there and you have pretty much a Mexican family ideal. lol
My mom is already egging us girls to have kids! Well, get married under the catholic church THEN have kids, but she’s already pining away at grandmotherhood.
Also Mexicans are very much like Chinese in that the elderly live with the family you take care of them until they die.
I generally like how I was brought up to put the family first and family before everything, but that’s were the cultural clash begins and the fact that I was raised in a completely different country with a completely different set a values and in a completely different time than my parents and even though they taught me all about the Mexican culture and the traditions I can’t help but feel stuck in the middle and held back by both cultures sometimes.
Noemi on May 4 2007 #
Cross-posted from my recent post on Snark itself:
“I’ve been brought up with the idea that my life wouldn’t be “complete” without having a child. While kids can be annoying, I do adore them. I love seeing my little brother singing “I’ve Found a Way” (Drake Bell) on his cardboard guitar, I love my sister coming home and telling me about playing “kiss chase” at school and I can’t imagine my life without experiencing those things first hand.”
Amber on May 4 2007 #
Mum was always expected to look after her parents when they were elderly, and she refused. Her mother didn’t want her to get a job, marry, or ever move out. She was supposed to stay at home and look after them. However, according to her Mum was terrible at housework (which is true) and cooking (which isn’t). Apparently my Mum was put down at every opportunity by her mother. She said she’d have been fine looking after Grandpa, but not her mother. Would that be unfilial? I suppose it would, but is it expected that a child who has always been put down by a parent then go and care sweetly for that parent in their old age?
As for me, I’m not planning to have children purely because I have a disability that I’m sure would mess up pregnancy in so many ways (I have a twisted spine, for instance). I intend to adopt, and I’m sure my parents won’t sulk about not getting natural grandchildren from me. My mum has a gene that makes her extremely predisposed to certain cancers—cancers of the bowel, ovaries, womb, and possibly more—and she might not want to pass it on. Even if she does, my little sister might oblige her.
Jessica on May 4 2007 #
I do agree with you that it is important to put family first, and that is exactly why I don’t think it is right for everyone to have children. Of course, it is a beautiful experience for those who really want to do it, but I have seen to many people who get children because they think it’s something you just have to do eventually, and they might not realize that they simply don’t have the resources or the commitment to give the child the best possible start in life. Of course, children are an important part of society, but I dislike it when people call it selfish not to have children, some people may feel that they can contribute more to society in other ways, and that should be respected as well.
Ragnhild on May 4 2007 #
I just feel the need to have kids. I guess its just my hormones telling me HEY. You have a boyfriend, you have sex… Its time for CHILDDREEENNNN!!!!
Except not really, because I dont want them now. I just know tht I will in the future and I’m so much more… “awww” about little kids then I used to be.
They still bug me though, ha.
marMARmar on May 4 2007 #
Well, as a Latin (Argentinean), I think and strongly believe that FAMILY COMES FIRST. But, I do am part of the family and in spite of how much family comes first, personal rights are way more important for us. My mother has never asked me to wait to marriage to have sex, or to have kids or anything. That family comes first means that we’ll be there when we are needed, and that family and love ones come before work and money and that we’re not gonna abandon them.
What i do agree with you here
“Along the same lines, I don’t understand the concept of aged care. We simpy don’t put elderly family members in aged care, nursing homes, retirement villages – that’s not being filial. You could never claim being “too selfish” as a reason to abandon your family to the care of others. Older family members live with and are taken care of by the family. It’s not unusual to find four generations living under one roof: great grandparents, grandparents, father/mother, children.”
I think a person needs to wait to have kids until they’re ready to take that responsibility and once the’ve learned so much about life that they will be able to pass knowledge and wisdom into their children.
Reproducing requires more to it than any other fact of life.
Constance on May 5 2007 #
While I too am from a Chinese family, I think Western ideals have affected my way of thinking more so than the Chinese.
I don’t want to have children because I’m terrified I’ll be a bad parent. While I completely understand (and heard many times) the idea that you have children to further the family name etc, or as companions, in the end, the children are human too. I wouldn’t want a human being to know they were made for the purpose of please someone, they should know they were born because someone wanted them to exist for their own sake. The parenting obligation doesn’t stop at the birthing, it is an ardous task to have to raise a child psychologically and physically healthy.
I once told my grandma that I didn’t want to have children because I don’t believe I have the temperament to be a good, patient parent. She said that was complete nonsense, that what is more important is to honour the family line, and outweighs any doubts about how capable a person might be as a parent.
And it’s not just in Chinese culture. Many people are “pressured” by society to have children, because it’s the “thing” to do, even though those people don’t have the personality suited to take care of a child or even want to have their freedom taken away from them by children.
In the end, I certainly will try to fulfill the duty as a daughter to take care of my parents into their old age. But I think it’ll be unethical to bring into the world and compromise the functionality of a human being (i.e. a child) due to my possible badness at parenting. Being ethical takes priority over any cultural pressure.
Belinda on May 5 2007 #
I’m Filipino and my culture is quite similar to yours. Plus, I’m an only child, so there was more pressure on me to give my parents grandkids. I say “was” however, because I already told my parents that I don’t see myself wanting to have kids, at least biologically. If I ever have kids, it would be through adoption. Unless of course I get pregnant by accident, but that’s altogether a different discussion…
I agree that family comes first, but the way I see it, my would-be child would be family, too, and it would be unfair for him/her to have a mother that isn’t psychologically or emotionally prepared to have children. I’d rather not be a mother than be a bad one. The world has enough neurotic children as it is.
Nikki on May 5 2007 #
In my personal experience, I have found this to be a generally Asian thing, because what you articulated in this post makes sense to me. Noemi also makes a great point about it also being a Catholic mentality, because I am an Asian who grew up in a Catholic household, so I pretty much faced that either way.
I also agree on your point in putting parents into a hospice or nursing home. It doesn’t make sense to me either and I’ve always viewed it as disrespectful. Now there are other points of view on this matter and I’m sure there are points made from that view that are good, but this value was instilled and practically carved into stone for me from very young. My parents want to have a house of their own (which I agreed to help design when the time comes), as they prefer to have their own abode, but my and my brother’s doors will always be open for them.
Back to the children thing. Even though I am in my 20s and I am starting to feel the pang of having children, I do not feel that not having children makes me feel incomplete. But I think this is because I know it isn’t my time to become a mother yet. I still have other things to complete before settling down. World domination would be one. =)
Another thing with coming from an Catholic Asian family is the amount of kids my mom expects to come out from me. She wants 8. I’m giving her 3. =P
Marz on May 5 2007 #
I’m not Chinese but I completely agree. My mom raised me with the filial relationship you spoke of. I want to have kids. Me and Josh (my dude person) are planning on 2-6. I’ve been having those maternal I-want-kids feelings since I was 12. But, while I do want to have them for me, it always reminds me of the fact that my mom will never see them. (The “having them for your parents” theory).
Now, my dad is a complete other story. He’s not a keep-in-touch kind of guy and the only reason I know anything about him is because I moved in with him when my mom died. He’s often tried to convince me NOT to have kids. He says that I’m doing it selfishly. That I should think of the world the kids would have to live in.
Skye on May 5 2007 #
Heh, I never really check those posts out… lack of any social life scares me from looking at them :P
I DO want children sometime in my life, but at the same time I’m also scared I’ll be a bad mother. I’m constantly fighting with mom these days, yet when I was younger (read 0 – 17 years) I always got along so well… maybe it’s a late bout of rebelling?
I always get so “sentimental” when I see little children. Today while waiting at the dentist there was a young mom with a 4-year-old. The kid was so sweet chattering away about stuff… well he was a bit creepy as for 10 minutes after I entered he would just stare at me, refusing to even sit down -.-
Vera on May 5 2007 #
I think a lot of the people that say “I’m too selfish” do so because they’re young and can’t imagine themselves settling down with kids. Five, ten maybe fifteen years down the line I can almost guarantee that the majority of them will have had at least one child, or are planning on it.
I spent my entire teenage years vowing to not reproduce (I’m too selfish, the world doesn’t need another child, etc) but as I get older I see it as being a “when”, rather than an “if”.
Jem on May 5 2007 #
I was definitely not brought up as you were and a lot of what you’re saying is a little offensive to me. I do agree that family is very important, and I can’t imagine putting my parents in some elderly home. That’s a horrifying topic to me.
But, while family is important, so I am I, and so is the world. And each woman/couple should have a choice as to whether she/they want children. Each woman should be important enough to be able to say to the world, “You know what? I have better things to do with my life than become a baby-maker.” Each couple should be able to make a decision together. And the world shouldn’t have to hold so many people.
Sure, it’s nice to “continue the family line”, but that’s not the only important thing in the world, which is why there are different priorities for different people. For some, not being chained to children for twentyplus years is a priority, and if their family accepts it, it’s all good.
I’m ranting in your comments a lot because there’s seems to be a big social stigma against women not having children, and it’s stupid. Individuals are individuals are individuals and why judge other individuals’ choices?
Stephanie on May 5 2007 #
I am totally with you on this, family always comes first to me. I’m Filipino and like most Asian cultures, family is of utmost importance.
Oh and I have to say, I’m not a big fan of the Western ideal of “me me me” I find Western culture to be so selfish. It’s always about the self, what I want, how I feel, what feels good for me (right now).
Kat on May 5 2007 #
I’m Filipino, and we’re also huge on close-family ties. That’s why when my family first moved to another city, all my other relatives (cousins, aunts, uncles, etc) moved to the same city as well, just so we can all be together. I think it’s tons of fun. People seem to think close families are strict and controlling, but in my case, we’re just so attached to each other, we’re miserable if any one of us is missing. :P
That said, I can’t believe how cold people can be. Dropping your parents/grandparents off to a nursing home as soon as you’re old enough to go on your own is the cruelest thing you can do to them. It’s very selfish, and it’s like you’re telling them, “Thanks for taking care of me. I don’t need you anymore. Bye-bye!” My heart would break if that happens to my elderly family. :(
Aravis on May 5 2007 #
LOL! And Tony Abbott wants you to have one. So does Howard. Come on populate Australia!
I totally understand the pressures that you have. I’m sure it happens with everyone. Though, to me, it seems like humans won’t even live to see 50 years past this day so I don’t really want to carry an offspring which in turn will face even more problems that past generations have created. I’ll just get rich and spend it all on me – and contraception. Gotta have enough sex in you’re lifetime. *GRINS*
Mish on May 5 2007 #
My mom has worked in more nursing homes than you can count with both hands. The fact is, most elderly people die in their homes. The ones who go to these homes are either
a) rich and want to live a party life in a dorm like setting. Seriously. They get a gym, pool, hair salon, shops, gourmet food, and then the housing is fantastic suites and lounges and other cool stuff. Very very rich people who are bored.
b) Physically incapable of taking care of themselves. Alzheimer’s, Type 1 Diabetes past the age of 80, Parkinson’s, etc.
Anyway, I know what you mean when you say you want kids. My boyfriend is like, “Nooooooo! My manly freedom.” And I’m like, “I’m being straight up honest with you. I will have at least two children. They will be born by the time I’m 35. It is going to be awesome.”
Kimmie on May 5 2007 #
There are many things to take into consideration when thinking about starting a family. I’m sure I haven’t pondered all of them, but thus far I can’t come up with a good enough reason to have kids. I’d be passing on my bad eye sight, a family history of depression and obesity, and creating another creature to use up the earth’s resources. It seems best not to procreate.
Brianne on February 6 2010 #